Dev Diary #3: Let there be Light!

Huge fan of what you're doing with this. My only opinion is that Darkvision and Superior Darkvision may confuse some, perhaps another name like Low-Light Vision to avoid any confusion?

"We felt like the player would be punished for simply not having a full party with Darkvision " - Don't you think that you are disconsidering 0-level (cantrips) spells such as light?

This sounds like discussions I've had with friends back in the 80's, so excited to see how the game develops.

I quite like the idea of the display showing the 'party leader' (player) view, including if it's pitch black. The HUD elements and maybe some other indicator could be used to inform the player that it's not a technical issue. This can add some survival/realism elements to the game ...planning the adventure in the local inn or at the general store becomes important (how many torches to buy, oil for lanterns, having a wizard with a simple cantrip ... or allowing the player to switch to another party member to get the feedback the party needs) ... I realise as I type that you've probably spent many hours debating the many variations to this.

I can understand replicating the tabletop experience leading you into the application in the article, so either way I like the overall 'light and darkness' pillar.

Agree with KingInWinter in regards to changing the names for homebrew changes to lessen confusion. It is not darkvision at this point it is lowlight vision. Game is great thus far though! Having to restart to take light cantrip though which is demotivating.

I'd rather play with the RAW, it would be nice if you guys gave us the option to play with RAW or Solata Rules in the Menu.

I'm a guy that loves stealth, thinking on that I made my team with all characters stealth like with darkvision, I'd rather not have lights close to my Assassin or close to my ranger while they are flanking, I don't play with mages, so no mages in my party to use dancing lights, I do have a cleric, but I rather not use that cantrip at all. Please give RAW as an option for the ones that want to play with it.

I dont see why these changes should encourage the use of  lights in combat, unless fighting a light sensitive enemy.

Bringing a torch, is more likely to light up all of my party members, while hostile archers / casters might be far enough away that they are still in shadow. And so one or more of my characters spend one hand to remove disadvantage for themselves... and for their opponents. A light spell wont cost a hand, but will still likely light my party up more than the enemy.

So we fight in darkness that is effectively dim light and everyone is at disadvantage, friend and foe alike. 

Main effect is that that save based cantrips / spells are boosted over cantrips, spells and attacks that require an attack roll. Oh and rogues, those guys who love to keep in the dark to sneak attack, they cant. Since they cant sneak attack if they have disadvantage. And fights are a bit longer, as both sides misses more often.

I am not a fan of this change either. On the surface, it looks like what the developers wanted a strategic option that adds to the depth, but when you dig in and it has significant consequences that alter the balance of the game. The light changes much more significantly nerf rogues (stealthy types) and ranged (martial and casters) characters.

I would prefer an option like @Svildr mentioned to turn this option off as it takes a lot of fun out of the game for me.

the biggest limiting factor of darkvision on the tabletop are primarily range. 60ft... that's what you can see as dim light. Superior darkvision gives the same to 120ft. Beyond that you can see no better than anyone else. If you're really wanting to nerf it, then why not just reduce that range to 30ft?

Giving enemies the ability to climb walls and fly, and expecting people to be able to somehow match this with light that appears to have no verticality and limited range. In Caer Lem I had an opponent on the wall directly above a dancing lights and my entire party  still had disadvantage as the opponent was 'unlit'. In the same fight there were 2 ranged opponents who suffered no disadvantage and ran away if anyone came near. Because of the terrain there was nowhere to cast dancing lights anywhere that it was effective, they ran from light sources and peppered my party with shots that never seemed to miss whilst I couldn't hit anything because... disadvantage on everything in darkness is fun! In the tower of Magic I had an opponent flying in dim light despite having someone with light cast on his weapon directly below and dancing lights 2 spaces away - no way to get light anywhere near it so only characters with darkvision had any chance to hit... this is how Darkness should be, dim light causing disadvantage punishes far too heavily. Having the verticality in opponents with no way to cast any light source in the air is just... broken. And INCREDIBLY annoying/frustrating. If this was supposed to improve player experience, I'm afraid it falls far short. 

I deliberately created a party with a mix of races because managing darkness is something that is normally entertaining. Casting light on human's/halfling weapons, but having at least 1 character that can see in darkness (and having to commit them to dealing with the things others can't see) is essential. Effectively what you have done is made darkvision next to useless in the early game, which is the worst possible time to be making new players deal with complete darkness. 

The light changes much more significantly nerf rogues (stealthy types) and ranged (martial and casters) characters.

I would prefer an option like @Svildr mentioned to turn this option off as it takes a lot of fun out of the game for me.

Exactly. There is a reason why light and darkvision work as they do in the D&D5 rules, it is carefully balanced. Why upset that balance?

Please, please, please provide the RAW option.  As much as I have sympathy for the apparently delicate sensibilities of your art director, I was _really_ looking forward to creating an entire party of elves specifically to roll around in complete darkness.  The first battle once we get to the caverns went from me striking out of the darkness to being completely curbstomped because my people apparently have disadvantage on attack rolls despite there being light _right_ there, so the cavern's not entirely in darkness.

I just wanna play 5e RAW.

(I also think that black and white photography can be a fantastic art form)

I bought the game, even being EA, because it touted using DnD rules. THEN, after three restarts to an EA game, with about 10-12 hrs of content, found out that my entire party of dwarves and elves having disadvantage in combat wasn't a bug, but, a feature. So, how has this decision in lighting worked?

Yes, a cleric can cast light on their shield IF they know they need THAT spell because of the lighting rule change with darkvision, AND, they can then highlight themselves to every monster ranged or melee, while having to chase monsters around to keep said monster in light. 

Yes, the wizard can cast light on their staff, or another party members weapon, IF they know they need THAT spell... well... see above. But, my elven wizard? Useless in combat. You have X number of spell slots and you aren't casting ONE offensive spell knowing you have dice roll rng AND disadvantage to hit. So, this change made wizards just a light source to chase monsters at best, and useless at worst.

Yes, your dual-wielding rogue can have light on their weapon, but, WHY? They are a rogue. You have darkvision. You hit from the shadows. Unless you're playing Solasta. 

With fourty years playing DnD from 1stEd, I bought this game because it gave me what I wanted; a turn-based rpg using DnD rules. But, it's not. It changed the rule of darkvision and in the process did exactly what the dev's didn't want: making the game a bad experience. 

Applying disadvantage is way too much, a -4 to hit would be more appropriate. Especially in one of the early underground fights against enemies that for some reason have full visibility in the dark. Nearly impossible to hit them while they attack with no disadvantage. I don't mind a challenge but it really feels like we are getting screwed there.

Upon further playing, I am having a really hard time getting into the game because of this feature particularly. Even understanding it is in early access, I can have light on my paladins greatsword, and the enemy right in front of me is still getting the unlit bonus... Please go back to RAW, I don't think I can play this game this way, It feels like the player is getting punished. I am having to put the game down because the first real dungeon in the castle has been a really unrewarding experience, which sucks because the gameplay itself is really fun. I will keep an eye out if this feature gets fixed (or gives a choice to play as RAW vs Solasta rules), but I can't play it as is.

Can you please tell the art director who was sobbing to grow up? These light rules were a bad idea from the beginning, especially since the game is advertised as close to raw as possible.

An interesting quirk is with this darkvision change is that despite a target being in darkness (unlit) so they technically couldn't be seen, the non-attack roll spells (magic missile, save damage spells, etc.) can still be targeted just fine (even by Humans).

I'm not sure if I like the concept or not, it adds lighting to be a factor but then also some down sides to it as well (potentially giving enemies advantage to hit you, or light sources being half range).

absolutely broken decision. It fundamentally breaks the action economy design of D&D.

Say- you cast light, losing part of your turn right there. To gain very short range advantage. The enemy (all of which basically have ranged attacks and start far away) now have advantage on you.

Your rogue 3 squares away? His advantage / sneak attack? Yep. Not happening like it would in 5e normally, because the enemy is in dim light. It doesn't even just turn it into a normal roll- it's disadvantage. On a sneak attack. In dim light, with a elf who has darkvision.

Give it up Dev's- your idea is simply broken. Use stock 5e rules- or at least give us the option. I guarantee if you do - next to no one is going to use your 'improved' method.

Sounds to me like the art director needs to go. (DISCLAIMER:THIS WAS A JOKE) :)

In all seriousness, I am totally with those believing that RAW should stay, in place of the change as it is now. One dream of mine as an old time PnP player of D&D has been to be able to experience an authentic D&D pc game with the rules staying as they are from the tabletop rules, and for the most part, Solasta for me hits it out of the park.

If you are concerned about the characters without darkvision not seeing anything but a black screen, then perhaps you could have it where, in a dark area:

1). Characters with darkvision see the area restricted to their darkvision as a dimly lit room, meaning disadvantage on any ability checks or saving throws.

2). Characters without darkvision and no light source see the same area as a more dimly lit room, (to simulate being in total darkness without upsetting the art director as much) with automatic fails to skill check or save that relies on sight. Enemies or other npc's are invisible when you have such characters selected.

3). Keep combat then, as in the SRD, with character with darkvision attacking enemies rules as written, and those without darkvision or light attacking at disadvantage.

The concern with players feeling punished for having a party with no darkvision characters to me is no different than the tabletop game feel you are seeking to bring to us. Most parties in D&D have one or more characters with darkvision anyway. And also, who is to say some might not take up the challenge of making a full party without darkvision and having to navigate in dark situations with light sources and trying to manage that. I truly hope you keep this feature as written.

Ronen (aka Grobnur Greengem)

I agree with the others.  It removes the option for individual characters to have an edge in darkness while denying an edge to the enemy, that edge being the ability to roll normally.  What you did wasn't add a new layer of tactics, but trade an existing layer for a dev favorite homebrew. 

In an unknown IP leaning on it's use of SRD, that feels like a lack of self awareness.  At the very least such deviant rules should be optional.  If players want to use the mix of darkvision party members as a stand in for difficulty setting why shouldn't they be able to?  

What has been added here isn't a fun new mechanic, but a complication. Combat now comes with a hurdle that must be cleared before you can get to the fighting. Busy work. A delay you have to push through before you can get back to the game. Please give us the option to disable this.

Absolutely brutal to not have this be optional. Brutal.